Does any one else hate Michael Moore?

It's good that he points out areas of weakness and motivates people but I hate how he cherry picks his info. And people buy his anti-american shtick hook line and sinker. He's just a filmmaker who makes millions of dollars, he invests in oil companies and Halliburton and then damns the other people who do. If he was a big time philanthropist or something then I'd take him seriously, but he really is just a quick buck artist who plays on peoples emotions.

"He doesn't lie or obfuscate to the same degree as Insurance companies, the white house, or your republican members of congress who stand up for their lobbyists at YOUR expense."

That itself is a complete lie. Using Moore's techniques, one could make a documentary about how the Nazis weren't aggressors, but victims of circumstance, just doing what they did to survive...

"Is it the government or this administration......"

It's the government. Nixon, Carter, Johnson, and I know you'd say Reagan....they all had bad administrations. It's the gov, not the admin. Which is another reason faith in Barry is silly.

People mistake Moore's intention, which is two-fold - to inform and to entertain. The entertainment portion will naturally include some exaggeration, hyperbole, etc. People have completely unrealistic and frankly, unfair expectations of Michael Moore. As you aptly point out, Josh, Moore's just doing what the other side has already done, over and over again. Why do the Karl Rove's of the world get away with their bullshit while everyone else holds Michael Moore to some kind of higher standard? It's retarded. Seems to me that what people really don't like is the message, so they think should go right on ahead and kill the messenger.

"If you present a silly story of the happy Europeans, Cubans and Canadians who just walk into their clinics are immediately waited on and its all "FREEEEEEEEEE," it presents a LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Its not FREEEEEE, and it doesn't work like its shown. THAT was all SET UP."

Actually, I used to live in Scotland and when I needed to see a doctor, I went to the clinic around the corner from my flat. I never had to make an appointment, I was always immediately waited on, and I never had to pay a dime (i.e., it was FREE). Sure, NHS was paid for out of my taxes, but then the percentage of taxes I paid in the UK is more or less the same as what I pay in California, maybe a couple percentage points higher. It was certainly not 50% of my paycheck.

When I lived in Spain, i didn't have to go to a clinic at all. The doctor made house calls!

"To institute a national health care is going to be very difficult especially since we have very little public spirit and acting for the common good among the poor as well as the rich."

Very true. It's odd how selfish Americans can be, particularly when considering that we as a people dump more money into charities and 'good causes" than anyone else on the planet. We seem to care more about the plight of starving Ethiopians than the fate of homeless mentally ill in the streets of our own cities. I've never understood this.

"If I am going be paying for the care of the public then I am going to want to have a say in how they take care of their bodies."

You have a say in how any government agency works. Contact your government representatives and demand they represent you in government. Easy as pie.

"I would have every right to pressure people to avaoid behaviors which will land them in the hospital and clinics and they are a responsiblity to stay healthy, FOR THE CoMMON GOOD."

Yes, it's called focus on prevention. American health care as it currently stands is not focused on prevention because more money is to be made from focusing on disease treatment. Making people ill and keeping them ill is profitable. A country full of healthy outdoorsmen is not good for the bottom line. Were we to switch to government provided health care, I imagine the focus would change as the profit incentive would diminish. Of course, there are still the drug companies with which to contend...

"Everyone talks about all this we need to give to the poor crap, but no one talks about their responsiblitiy to the public good by making sure they stay out of the hospitial."

Why do you hate poor people, Druben?

"I never use health care or go to the hopsital. I don't use drugs, dringk to excess, hang out in dangerous neighborhoods, eat to exces because I dont't want to pay those costs."

Good for you.

"A socialized medicine will require a sacrifice of certain freedoms on everyone's part and we are no where near that."

Sure we are. Like I said, it's simply a matter of shifting focus from treatment to prevention. We don't need any kind of consensus to achieve that.